Brigadier General Amir Avivi (Res.) and Creative Solutions to the Palestinian Conflict Transcript

Disclaimer: This transcript is an edited version version of a transcript created using AI technology and may not reflect 100% accuracy.

The video can be found here.

Interviewer: Good afternoon to those in the United States and good evening or Erev Tov to those here in Israel. Thank you so much for joining us. Today is day 522 of the war being waged against Israel on multiple fronts. Our speaker, General Amir Avivi will be joining us any minute now. General Avivi’s time is very much in demand right now. He speaks in the Knesset, on Israeli television and radio and provides interviews to many different outlets. Today, he was called away to Samaria, to the Shomron where the IDF discovered deadly equipment poised for use against Israeli soldiers and civilians.

As our regular listeners know, Brigadier General Amir Avivi is the founder and president of the Israeli Defense and Security Forum (IDSF). IDSF comprises over 35,000 officers, soldiers, and civilians who have taken on the mission of ensuring that the state of Israel remains secure for generations to come. IDSF emphasizes that it is not Jews around the world who defend Israel, but Israel which defends Jews all around the world. IDSF emphasizes the basic principle shared by most Israelis. Israel’s security must be based on the ability for Israel to defend itself by itself and it must actively prevent the development of threats to the Jewish nation. We here at EMET, also do not take Israel’s security for granted. We believe Israel is not only defending the Jews, but the rest of the civilized world as well.

As I mentioned, Brigadier General Avivi is the chairman and founder of IDSF. General Avivi has also served in a variety of positions in the IDF, including Deputy Controller of the Defense Establishment, Head of the Chief of Staff’s Office, Deputy Commander of the Gaza Division, Commander of the Sagi Brigade, Commander of Battalion 605, and Commander of the Combat Engineering School. He is married and is the father of four children.

While we wait for General Avivi to come on the line, I will mention that there were rumors of normalization talks between Israel and Lebanon today. We are wondering how the government of Lebanon would react to normalization between Israel and Lebanon considering that there is a large Shiite population in Lebanon. As we know, there are four cabinet positions controlled by Hezbollah in the Lebanese government, including the very important finance ministry. Some Israelis are returning to the northern border. We would like to know how Israel would handle normalization with Lebanon and if they will have to maintain a buffer zone. That is one of the many issues we are going to discuss with Amir Avivi.

We would also like to find out General Avivi’s views on Mohammad al-Julani or Ahmed al-Sharaa in Syria and discuss the role that Turkey is playing in Syria. We will ask General Avivi’s opinion on the fact that the International Atomic Energy Administration said recently the Iranians have enough highly enriched uranium for six nuclear bombs. Other topics for discussion today include the Cairo plan for Gaza and the potential to work effectively with tribal leaders in Gaza.

This week, U.S. presidential envoy for hostage affairs, Adam Boehler, met directly with Hamas. Fatah was very upset about not being included but we, at EMET, believe Fatah is Hamas but dressed in a suit and tie. Irrespective, we are waiting to see what may come out of the meetings with Hamas. Adam Boehler called the Israeli hostages, prisoners and the Palestinian prisoners, hostages, which is a major mistake.

Thank you for your patience. I see General Avivi is on the line now.

General Avivi, we were doing a little bit of a roundup of some topical issues while we were waiting. We explained how important the mission of IDSF is and how you are working to ensure the survival and the security of the State of Israel for generations to come. I mentioned the incredible contribution you have made both to the Israeli army and to the morale and spirit of the state of Israel. We have many questions for you so let’s dive right in.

Today there was a rumor that normalization talks were beginning between Israel and Lebanon. Unfortunately, it seems that this was just a rumor. What sort of a buffer zone would be necessary to make sure that the residents of Metula and Kiryat Shmona will feel safe and secure before going back to their homes? How long would the IDF need to remain there?

General Amir: I think it is critical for Israel that Hezbollah be dismantled and that we do not consider the maintenance of a buffer zone as the end state. We need to dismantle Hezbollah in accordance with Resolution 1559. This UN Council resolution requires all militias be dismantled in order for Lebanon to be a sovereign country. The Lebanese army would be the only force allowed to be active and weaponized in Lebanon. As long as Resolution 1559 is not enforced, Israel has to act to prevent Hezbollah from rebuilding. Right now, Israel has to attack Hezbollah every day as they attempt to rearm themselves.

There is a big question as to whether Israel is going to insist on implementing resolution 1559 but I think it is crucial. Lebanon has many demands which I think are outrageous. They include changing the border between us and them. We should not agree to anything and we should definitely not make any concessions if they do not dismantle Hezbollah completely. I know they started talks but the big question is what changes are going to happen in Lebanon. How can we make sure that Lebanon does not pose a threat to Israel again?

Interviewer: Today, Gideon Sa’ar, the foreign minister, said that Hamas is not prepared to lay down its arms and this is pretty evident. Unfortunately, our Middle East negotiator met with Hamas this weekend. He mistakenly called Israeli hostages, prisoners and Hamas terrorists, hostages. How do we deal with Hamas going forward and how do we deal with the rest of the world which seems not to understand that we are releasing brutal terrorists?

General Amir: At this stage, Israel’s interest is to secure the release of as many hostages as possible. That is why we agreed to talks with Hamas. That said, we cannot allow the discussions and ceasefire to continue without the release of hostages. If it is up to Hamas, they will continue this discussion for years while rebuilding themselves. They are reorganizing, regrouping, weaponizing, organizing their forces and implementing lessons learned from their mistakes in the war. Every day that passes will make it more challenging for the IDF when they have to re-enter Gaza. So, we need to set a clear red line as to when the negotiations with them will end. We want the hostages back now. If they are not willing to release the hostages, Israel needs to go back to fight and the fighting is going to be completely different from anything we have seen until now.

At the beginning of the war, Israel attacked Gaza, and started degrading Hamas. There were discussions at the time as to whether Israel should conquer Gaza immediately and maintain the many forces needed for that in Gaza, or keep the forces fresh for a war in Lebanon. The government and the army chose not to conquer the area in order to keep the forces ready for Lebanon. We also lacked munitions and US support for conquering Gaza. So, we acted as we did for various reasons.

We degraded Hamas dramatically, but we did not destroy them. Everything is different now. We completed most of our missions in the North and we can concentrate on Gaza. We have the munitions. We have new leadership in the army, a new chief of staff and a new commander of the Southern Command who started his position today. Of course, the current US administration has a completely different approach from the prior one. The combination of all these factors suggest that things are going to be different in Gaza going forward.

The IDF is preparing for a decisive attack to destroy Hamas and the next time we attack Gaza we will destroy them as a governmental and military entity. We are also not giving up on bringing our hostages back. The decision making needs to happen in the coming days or weeks. So, unless we start seeing our hostages being released, we will have to resort to a full-scale, and final attack, on Gaza. The attack will continue until we win decisively and then we will implement Trump’s plan to relocate the Gazans. We need countries to agree to relocate them and the US needs to sign agreements with different countries willing to accept them.

Interviewer: At this point, it does not look like Egypt wants to import the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Jordan is afraid of being toppled by its Palestinian population. Is there a way that we could convince Egypt and Jordan or other countries to accept the Gazan population? Do you have other countries in mind?

General Amir: I do not think Egypt and Jordan are the only countries which should be considered as viable options for taking in the Palestinians. I think all the countries in the world can share in this mission. Alternatively, countries that need US or Israeli support and collaboration, may offer to receive the Gazans. The US and Israel need to work out with as many countries as possible. Egypt or Jordan are not the only countries which can receive the Gazans.

Interviewer: In the West, we are very afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood. We have seen the havoc they have caused on our university campuses and in the streets of London, New York and other places. They want to move to Canada, Australia, the United States and Western Europe but we are afraid that they represent a voter block that might not be compatible with Western democratic values. What are your thoughts about this?

General Amir: I think there are many people in Gaza who are not thinking about exporting the Muslim brotherhood’s ideology. This sector of the population is seeking a new life. They want to work and to make a living. Of course, there are many Gazans who are completely aligned with Hamas, but there are also many who simply want to build a life outside of Gaza. After the war, I think Gaza will be a place where people will not want to live, it will be completely destroyed. Therefore, we do need a global effort to relocate them.

Interviewer: Yehudah and Shomron have become flashpoints recently. I know you were in Shomron today. I read that the IDF found explosive materials there with the potential to do extensive harm to Israeli soldiers and civilians. The area has become very dangerous lately, what do you recommend can be done about it?

General Amir: Well, we have big challenges there. Iran is constantly trying to smuggle capabilities through Jordan, into Judea and Samaria. Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and factions of the Palestinian Authority (PA), are attempting to carry out terror attacks all the time. The terror is emanating mostly from the refugee camps and the IDF is operating very strongly there. In Jenin, the refugee camp has been evacuated completely. The IDF is going house to house and clearing out the weapons, improvised explosive devices, and other terror capabilities. They are really uprooting the terror in this area, and the same goes for Tulkarem and other places.

The IDF is attempting to do a very thorough job dismantling terror, but it is an ongoing task. If we do not drain the swamp, terrorism will not end. By draining the swamp, I am referring to changing education. The Palestinians continue educating and inciting the young generation to conduct terror attacks. In the long term, we need to get rid of Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the PA which are all terrible. We need to rely more on local leadership, on the clans. I have had the chance to meet many clan leaders over the past two weeks. They are fed up with the PA. They want to sign their own peace agreements with Israel. I think there is tectonic change happening in Palestinian society. They also have new visions for the future. We have to take the terrible tragedy of October 7^th and make the best we can of it. We should dismantle the terror infrastructure and sign viable agreements that will bring about a fundamental change in the mentality and education in this society.

Interviewer: What do we do about those in the foreign policy establishment trying to resurrect the PA? As you know, the Palestinian National Covenant speaks about hegemonic ambitions to conquer all of Israel. For example, Article 21 says, “The Arab Palestinian people expressing themselves by the armed Palestinian revolution, rejects all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine, and rejects all proposals aiming at the liquidation of the Palestinian problem or its internationalization.” This is just one of the many articles in the Palestinian National Covenant that has never been repealed. So many in the foreign policy establishment revert to the same old tired refrain that we should resurrect the PA in Gaza after getting rid of Hamas. What do you say to that?

General Amir: The PA is even more dangerous than Hamas. This is because they do not operate in Israel only. They manage the entire global de-legitimation and anti-Semitism movement. If you google BDS, navigate to the BDS website and scroll down, you will see the site is managed by the Palestinian BDS National Committee (BNC). BNC is the coalition of Palestinian organizations led by the PA. The PA is undermining not only Israel, but Jewish people everywhere. All of the demonstrations and antisemitism we are witnessing on university campuses, emanates from the PA. They are the source of the antisemitic activity Jews around the world are experiencing and that explains why they are so dangerous. They are also the source of incitement. They manage Palestinian schools and pay billions to terrorists. Every single terrorist including those who raped women, burned people alive and decapitated children on October 7^th, is getting paid a salary by the PA. The PA pays terrorists from Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Nukhba and we need to dismantle them together with Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

The only chance we have for any kind of coexistence with the Palestinians is to work with the local leadership and with the clans. They are far from perfect but they require the family to be loyal to the head of the family and radicalism endangers this, so they tend to suppress it if they can. This includes the radical ideas of organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Hamas.

Israel is finally saying formally that the day after in Gaza, there will be no Hamas, no Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and no PA. As I mentioned, these organizations are corrupt, they incite and they pay terrorists. If that is true in Gaza, why are we willing to have them governing in Judea and Samaria? It does not make sense. Everything we do not want them to do in Gaza, they are doing in Judea and Samaria. So, we need to really wake up, move forward and push new ideas forward.

The number of civilians killed or wounded between Oslo in 1993 and October 7^th, 2023, increased 12 times as compared to the number killed from 1948 through Oslo, normalized by year. So, Oslo was devastating for us in many ways. Israel lost its security. Huge numbers of civilians and soldiers were killed or injured and we abandoned our own values by starting to tell ourselves the story that this land belongs to them. Oslo took the whole Zionist idea and broke it into pieces. So, we need to step away from this catastrophe and build a new future based on a new vision.

Interviewer: One of our listeners has asked where are the leaders of the clans are? Why do we not hear from them? Are they afraid to step forward? How can we support them and amplify their messages?

General Amir: They are sending a clear message to Israel – support us – assure us that if we do something, you will help us. For years, the defense establishment has made the PA look like messiahs. They butcher us and the defense establishment defends them. It does not make sense. Israel’s leadership needs to build a clear, comprehensive vision of what we want and what is viable, before we can do something about convincing the clan leaders to work with us. The day the clans believe Israel will support and help them, they will throw the PA out and start pushing serious changes. They will talk to us about education and work with us on the economy and so on.

Interviewer: Have you had discussions with members of the Knesset or the Prime Minister about amplifying this vision?

General Amir: I have been having discussions on this vision for the last four years, but something big has changed now because more clans are interested in working with us. So, the level of involvement of leading figures in the government and beyond has increased dramatically. Things are happening and it will be interesting to see where this idea will go in the coming months.

Interviewer: Looking north toward Syria, what do you think of Ahmed al-Sharaa, formerly the Al-Qaeda figure, Mohammed al-Jolani? How much of a role has Turkey played in the Hayat Tahrir al-Sham’s control of Syria? The Alawites in Syria are now asking for Israel’s protection against what they refer to as the ethnic cleansing of the “jihadists.” What’s your response to all that?

General Amir: No matter how many times they change the name from ISIS to Al-Qaeda to Al-Khayat, they are still radical Sunni terrorists who are butchering people. In Syria they are performing ethnic cleansing of Christians and Alawis and they are threatening the Druze and the Kurds. They have committed terrible atrocities in Syria over the past few weeks. The videos and films showing the way they kill the people there, are unbelievable and comparable to October 7^th. It is very hard to predict what will happen in Syria in the future. We might see the country revert to civil war but the situation may also stabilize, we do not yet know. The only thing we know is what we do and we have created a buffer zone of 40 kilometers, all the way to Damascus. Any force south of Damascus is attacked by Israel. We are creating an umbrella for the Druze who live in south Syria and we are making sure that nobody gets close to them. We have forces inside Syria in the Hermon and we are creating stability there.

The situation in the North is dynamic and I do not know what will happen with Turkey in the future. That said, if I take a snapshot of the North at this moment, Israel is more secure in the North than it has been in the last 40 years. We have the best situation we have had in the last 40 years. If we want to make sure this continues, we need to be proactive and degrade the capabilities of our enemies all the time. We need to attack again and again, and not let them recover. We must not allow them to regroup and rebuild their capabilities.

If we look at the big picture in the Middle East, we should really focus on building up this Western, Israeli, moderate Sunni alliance. It might serve as a magnet for Lebanon or even a future Syria. At some point they may be convinced to join a moderate Sunni alliance and to turn away from the radical one we see in Syria at the moment.

Interviewer: So, of course, the big question on everyone’s mind is Iran and their rush to a nuclear bomb. You know, the International Atomic Energy Administration said just last week that they have enough highly enriched uranium for six nuclear bombs. What should the United States and or Israel do about this?

General Amir: Israel and the US need to attack Iran and the sooner the better. They need to destroy Iran’s nuclear sites. Negotiations with the Iranians are not going to work. They are not going to dismantle their sites and they are moving steadily towards nuclear weapons. If Iran obtains nuclear weapons, it will be a historic failure both for the US and Israel. Neither of us can really live with such a reality. I believe that dealing with the threat will require two or three days of attack and no more. It will not require boots on the ground. Conducting a massive airstrike on Iran is not the beginning of a war, it is the end of the war. It will dismantle the Shia axis and provide the incentives to move towards regional peace agreements and stability. We do see CENTCOM training with Israel and we see the Israeli Air Force training with the strategic bombers and this leads us to understand that preparations are moving forward. That said, we need leadership and resolution.

I think President Trump needs to understand that we need deeds and not just threats, especially in the Middle East. America needs to show it is willing to use its power at least somewhere in the world.  It would not be smart to challenge the Chinese or the Russians directly. The Iranians are the weak link and we should attack them. Israel is ready and the US has all the necessary capabilities. I am willing to say it will take three days to dismantle all of Iran’s military capabilities and nuclear sites and create a whole different reality in the Middle East. The impact of such an attack would resonate across the world and not just in the Middle East. It would deter China from invading Taiwan and pressure the Russians further. Every day that passes, further convinces the enemies of the US that the US is not really serious about taking action against them.  Even Hamas is no longer impressed by the US, especially now the US is talking to them directly in an unprecedented fashion.

I also do not understand why the US does not give Qatar, Egypt and Turkey a week to hand over the entire leadership of Hamas. Hamas has kidnapped and butchered Americans and America has all the right to demand that they expedite their return. The day America gives Qatar a week to deliver the leadership of Hamas is the day we will have the hostages released immediately.

Interviewer: Qatar is guilty of harboring Hamas officials. The money they invest in our universities undermines our American education to our American students. Qatar has plenty of blood on its hands.

General Amir: Definitely. But let’s start by getting them to hand over the leadership of Hamas and then the US can send them to Guantanamo.

Interviewer: Right. If Israel was to institute the death penalty for terrorists who carry out deadly acts, would it increase or decrease the incentives to kidnap Israelis?

General Amir: There is a death penalty in Israel. The law exists and so it is not a question of a new law. A military court in Israel can decide on the death penalty, but it is not part of our culture and I do not think it will change any time soon.

Right now, I think we need to deal with Hamas’ leadership who are currently outside of Gaza. We also need to go into Gaza, destroy Hamas and get it over with. Everybody understands that is what we need to do. The chief of staff is stating clearly that we are going to eradicate them and achieve victory. The question is when we will go in and how organized Hamas will be when we go in the next time.

Interviewer: What is your assessment of Turkey’s role in backing, directing, and funding antisemitism on US campuses? What do you think about Erdogan’s hegemonic approach towards the region and his support for the Muslim Brotherhood?

General Amir: Turkey has big aspirations. Erdogan had aspirations to rebuild the Ottoman Empire and become a global force from the day he first won the presidency in 2004. He is building a huge military industry and producing all kinds of weapons and capabilities. He has a big army, a huge navy and is building alliances. He is involved in Libya and other places and I think that we have to be very alert in this regard. I can say that the Prime Minister has built a committee to advise on building up the army’s strength looking into the future. This committee said the Israeli army needs to be ready to confront Turkey in the future and Turkey has a big army so this is something new. That said, I believe that the U.S. and NATO can work to contain Turkey.

There is a big question as to what will happen with the Russians. If the Russian-Ukrainian war ends, the Russians may be able to concentrate more on Western Syria. They could potentially keep their ports and air base in Syria and bring in more soldiers. This could also help deter the Turks and stabilize the situation slightly. So, a Russian presence in Syria can help stabilize the situation as it did previously. However, to achieve this, we need to end the Russian Ukrainian war. It is a good idea to break the Chinese/Russian/Iranian front and get Russia back on the side of the West and away from China. Russia was pushed into Chinese hands. We need to separate Russian from both China and Iran.

The way to break down the Chinese/Russian/Iranian front is to attack Iran and to pull Russia from China toward the West. This will require some kind of resolution in Ukraine. China will face the reality of being surrounded by the U.S, Russia and India, and it will be contained. There will also be new trade routes controlled more by the West than by China.

Interviewer: We have received many questions from our audience. If Israel were to annex Judea and Samaria, would that improve or worsen Israel’s security?

General Amir: If that were to happen, Israel’s security would improve dramatically. We are not discussing applying Israeli law in 100% of Judea and Samaria. We are talking about the areas that comprise around 60% of the area and does not include Palestinian cities. The Palestinians would maintain some self-governance in their cities similar to a kind of Emirates model, like Dubai and Abu Dhabi. We do not want to annex their cities and we do not want the Palestinians to become Israeli citizens. We do want to have a massive presence of Jews in the mountains of Judea and Samaria, and in the Jordan Valley. Overall, Israel would retain responsibility over the security of all of the land of Israel. So, there are viable solutions which would enable Israel to apply its law in vast areas of Judea and Samaria and be very secure while not annexing the Palestinian cities and changing the demography of Israel.

Interviewer: Another question we received relates to the bunker buster bombs that the United States is providing to Israel. Are these sufficient to penetrate the Iranian nuclear manufacturing bunkers?

General Amir: They are very helpful but we need the Americans to participate in the attack if we want a decisive, simultaneous attack on all Iran’s capabilities. American participation would allow us to achieve optimal results and an create an entirely different scenario. People have forgotten what the US is able to do. The US brings capabilities with it that Israel does not have, including strategic bombers. Outside of weapons, the US is also the only country with certain capabilities that are needed in a scenario like this one.

Interviewer: Okay. Is Israel able to set up a secure area in Syria for the Kurds and the Druze?

General Amir: Israel has already set up a secure area for the Druze. The Kurds are on the eastern side, so we cannot really go all the way there. Israel is standing strong in Syria and defending the Golan Heights in a way we have not done before. Anytime we see al-Jolani’s forces trying to seize tanks or capabilities of the Syrian army, we attack. We attack and we destroy them. We did that several times this week. The fact that we are sitting on the Hermon Mountain, on the highest point, is a game changer. We can see everything happening on the Syrian and Lebanese sides. It is a very meaningful and strategic position for us.

Interviewer: Wonderful. Israel has achieved significant gains since October 7^th, 2023 but we still have a long way to go. Thank you, Brigadier General Amir Avivi for your wonderful work. General Avivi has made beautiful movies so Israeli youth can understand what they are fighting and sacrificing for. I think it is very important for people to support General Avivi’s wonderful organization at idsf.org.il. Of course, EMET also depends on you for support at emetonline.org.

We applaud you General. Thank you so much for your time, I know how busy you are. Thank you also for everything that you are doing for us. You are not only keeping Jews all over the world safe, but you are doing the same for the rest of the civilized world.

General Amir: Thank you. We had a very difficult year but we have made a lot of progress. This is the year Israel needs to achieve a decisive win on all fronts. When you see people dancing in the streets, you will know we achieved victory.

Interviewer: Wonderful. Thank you so much. Am Yisrael Chai.

General Amir: Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

Interviewer: Bye.

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